Why is Sundering considered 'perfect' when Vamp does more DPS overall. - Guild Wars Forums

DigitalFear · Dec 29, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I tried some Vamp and Sundering weapons on the Master of Damage(Axe, Bow, Sword), either autoattacking or using a set amount of attack skills.

Every time Vampiric had a higher overall damage.

So why do people want Sundering while Vamp does more damage?

Covah · Dec 29, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14

15^50
20/20
+30

looks good in peoples eyes. They say its perfect so they can sell it. Thats about it.

Diavna · Dec 29, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor

Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done.

Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better.

Morticia of Cyana · Dec 29, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalFear

So why do people want Sundering while Vamp does more damage?

Maybe they don't like the -1 HP degen? The degen looks "scary" and some pug-monks may moan about it.

Using vamp weapons mostly means switching weaponsets a lot, while you can use the same sundering weapon without switching because of health loss.

I prefer vamp, because it negates all defences. Life stealing is better then armor penetration imo.

GODh · Dec 29, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Well, perfect just means that the mod cant get any better... a 20/20 sundering mod is perfect, a 20/19 is not.

A 5/-1 vampiric mod is perfect, a 4/-1 is not...

The quest is more: why is sundering more populair? Answer: because it has no conditions...

When used well a perfect vampiric mod does a lot more damage (life stealing) than a perfect sundering mod, but lots of players arent good enough to use a vamp mod well... and they are scared of the -1 health degeneration.

Quaker · Dec 29, 2009, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Oh gawd, here we go again...... This topic has already been debated to death, several times.

Bottom line - overall there is very little, if any, difference in total damage between Vamp and Sundering over the course of a battle. Those that say one does "a lot more damage" than the other, usually just haven't done any real in-game testing.

Use which ever floats your boat. Personally, I use Sundering (when it's a choice between just those two) because I'm too lazy/forgetful to swap out the vamp weapon. In either case, the majority of damage is done by skills added on top of the base weapon damage.

Gift3d · Dec 29, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

because people are blithering idiots, the gavel is down.

HawkofStorms · Dec 29, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Vamp is generally considered superior from a mathematical perspective.

There is two reasons sundering is worth more... 1) Bigger numbers, 20 sounds better then 3, so the uneducated in this game just assume it is better 2) Rarity. This is the big difference. A perfect sundering mod, because there are bigger numbers, just drops less often then perfect vamp mods (or at least did, back when mods actually had value prior to raptor farming). Thus they are more expensive. And thus in many people's eyes "better."

T1Cybernetic · Dec 29, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I use zealous and furious mostly

but when the need arises vamp is the mod i prefer...

Warvic · Dec 29, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I remember trying to sell perfect weapons (vamp) and some dude said I was trying to scam him because it wasn't sundering. I laughed so hard. It's funny!

Vamp is superior to sundering. sundering only affects RAW damage. so a sword has a 20% chance to do 21-25 instead of 17-21. Woohoo! (Atleast that what I heard.) So on daggers,swords its crap, on a scythe,hammer it's more usefull.

In pve I can understand why people want sundering tho. Pve is easy anyway, so why swap weapons all the time when you can be lazy.

FengShuiDove · Dec 29, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

1. Community has not widely acknowledged the empirical fact that Vampiric provides more DPS than Sundering.
2. Community at large faers the -1 health degeneration and is too stupid to bring a weapon swap and use it properly.
3. Convention. Tying back to 1, this is the way it's been done, so it will continue to be done as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diavna

Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor

Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done.

Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying right, but Sundering acts only on hits that occur while the Sunder-modded weapon are attached. It doesn't leave effects like weakened armor that benefit when switching to Vampiric. You may not have meant this at all, so I apologize in advance if I'm reading your post wrong. Either way, this has been debated endlessly, and Vampiric has been proven to be the highest damage output mod.

Kitor · Dec 29, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying right, but Sundering acts only on hits that occur while the Sunder-modded weapon are attached. It doesn't leave effects like weakened armor that benefit when switching to Vampiric. You may not have meant this at all, so I apologize in advance if I'm reading your post wrong. Either way, this has been debated endlessly, and Vampiric has been proven to be the highest damage output mod.

I don't think you are missing the point Feng. He said a couple times "after sundering is done"

Sundering doesn't leave an effect, it has a chance to ignore a portion of armor while wielding a sundering weapon.

As per the question asked, I'd say it's just general ignorance. Like has been said, the -1 tends to turn people off, and sundering has bigger numbers.

Morticia of Cyana · Dec 29, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitor

and sundering has bigger numbers.

Sundering might have bigger numbers, but vamp has more numbers.

Skyy High · Dec 29, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diavna

Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor

Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done.

Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better.

You really need to go read up on weapon mods and damage on the wiki, because this has to be the most incorrect post on this topic I've ever seen, and this debate has raged for nearly 5 years now.

WarcryOfTruth · Dec 29, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morticia of Cyana

Sundering might have bigger numbers, but vamp has more numbers.

People prefer quality over quantity I guess.

sonofthort · Dec 29, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

If you are ready to begin your studies in the art of weapon swapping, make sure you bring an ebon weapon aswell, most warriors will have 20 less armor vs elemental, and also -3 damage reduction vs elemental (because most warriors equip superior absorption). Ebon vs the typical warrior will do more damage than vamp.

Enar. · Dec 29, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Doesn't have to be ebon. it can be any elemental damage.

I'm using Cold/Zealous/Vampiric for all weapons + Sundering for Axe only.

Sundering on bows is quite dumb i find.
But whats more dumb, its that if you sell weapon that doesn't have 20/20 ,because you value zealous more then they ask to lower price which is like lol...

Kwith · Dec 29, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

My outlook is who cares?

It works better for me when the community thinks a certain mod is better than others. It allows me to get the mods I want at prices that aren't ridiculously inflated.

People put so much stock into sundering that they ignore the rest and practically give them away. Which allows for people who like to think outside the community standard's box to reap the benefits.

My advice, let the people do as they please, it just means less money spent for you on mods.

Chthon · Dec 29, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

because people are blithering idiots, the gavel is down.

This.
(12 characters)

mathiastemplar · Dec 29, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by GODh

Well, perfect just means that the mod cant get any better... a 20/20 sundering mod is perfect, a 20/19 is not.

A 5/-1 vampiric mod is perfect, a 4/-1 is not...

The quest is more: why is sundering more populair? Answer: because it has no conditions...

When used well a perfect vampiric mod does a lot more damage (life stealing) than a perfect sundering mod, but lots of players arent good enough to use a vamp mod well... and they are scared of the -1 health degeneration.

This.
Couldn't be described better^_^

Dec 29, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53	#1
DigitalFear Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: My mother's basement. Profession: Me/	Why is Sundering considered 'perfect' when Vamp does more DPS overall. I tried some Vamp and Sundering weapons on the Master of Damage(Axe, Bow, Sword), either autoattacking or using a set amount of attack skills. Every time Vampiric had a higher overall damage. So why do people want Sundering while Vamp does more damage?

Dec 29, 2009, 03:35 PM // 15:35	#6
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Oh gawd, here we go again...... This topic has already been debated to death, several times. Bottom line - overall there is very little, if any, difference in total damage between Vamp and Sundering over the course of a battle. Those that say one does "a lot more damage" than the other, usually just haven't done any real in-game testing. Use which ever floats your boat. Personally, I use Sundering (when it's a choice between just those two) because I'm too lazy/forgetful to swap out the vamp weapon. In either case, the majority of damage is done by skills added on top of the base weapon damage. Last edited by Quaker; Dec 29, 2009 at 03:38 PM // 15:38..

Dec 29, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14	#2
Covah Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Guild: Catching Jellyfish With [소N트T ] Profession: Me/Rt	15^50 20/20 +30 looks good in peoples eyes. They say its perfect so they can sell it. Thats about it.

Dec 29, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14	#3
Diavna Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Profession: N/E	Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done. Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better.

Dec 29, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27	#5
GODh Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The Netherlands Guild: BFTW and DLRR	Well, perfect just means that the mod cant get any better... a 20/20 sundering mod is perfect, a 20/19 is not. A 5/-1 vampiric mod is perfect, a 4/-1 is not... The quest is more: why is sundering more populair? Answer: because it has no conditions... When used well a perfect vampiric mod does a lot more damage (life stealing) than a perfect sundering mod, but lots of players arent good enough to use a vamp mod well... and they are scared of the -1 health degeneration.

Dec 29, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39	#7
Gift3d Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas Guild: Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR] Profession: W/E	because people are blithering idiots, the gavel is down.

Dec 29, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42	#8
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Vamp is generally considered superior from a mathematical perspective. There is two reasons sundering is worth more... 1) Bigger numbers, 20 sounds better then 3, so the uneducated in this game just assume it is better 2) Rarity. This is the big difference. A perfect sundering mod, because there are bigger numbers, just drops less often then perfect vamp mods (or at least did, back when mods actually had value prior to raptor farming). Thus they are more expensive. And thus in many people's eyes "better."

Dec 29, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50	#9
T1Cybernetic Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire, Uk, Nr Earth Guild: Alternate Evil Gamers [aeg] Profession: N/	I use zealous and furious mostly but when the need arises vamp is the mod i prefer...

Dec 29, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06	#10
Warvic Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Netherlands Profession: A/W	I remember trying to sell perfect weapons (vamp) and some dude said I was trying to scam him because it wasn't sundering. I laughed so hard. It's funny! Vamp is superior to sundering. sundering only affects RAW damage. so a sword has a 20% chance to do 21-25 instead of 17-21. Woohoo! (Atleast that what I heard.) So on daggers,swords its crap, on a scythe,hammer it's more usefull. In pve I can understand why people want sundering tho. Pve is easy anyway, so why swap weapons all the time when you can be lazy.

Dec 29, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28	#16
sonofthort Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: The Legends Of Melee [SSBM] Profession: Mo/	If you are ready to begin your studies in the art of weapon swapping, make sure you bring an ebon weapon aswell, most warriors will have 20 less armor vs elemental, and also -3 damage reduction vs elemental (because most warriors equip superior absorption). Ebon vs the typical warrior will do more damage than vamp.

Dec 29, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37	#17
Enar. Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Estonia Profession: W/	Doesn't have to be ebon. it can be any elemental damage. I'm using Cold/Zealous/Vampiric for all weapons + Sundering for Axe only. Sundering on bows is quite dumb i find. But whats more dumb, its that if you sell weapon that doesn't have 20/20 ,because you value zealous more then they ask to lower price which is like lol...

Dec 29, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39	#18
Kwith Academy Page Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canada Guild: Gaming Continuum Profession: W/	My outlook is who cares? It works better for me when the community thinks a certain mod is better than others. It allows me to get the mods I want at prices that aren't ridiculously inflated. People put so much stock into sundering that they ignore the rest and practically give them away. Which allows for people who like to think outside the community standard's box to reap the benefits. My advice, let the people do as they please, it just means less money spent for you on mods.